Talk:Daylight saving time

An idea for a section: obsoleteness

I think the article needs a paragraph on how obsolete the daylight saving is in XXI century, compared to XIX-XX century of industrialization.

The reason is simple: almost every village has lampposts.

This way, the article will reflect the modern opposition of daylight saving shifts. However, it will also reflect how daylight saving had to exist in the world, where electric lamps were stil a novelty and not something taken for granted. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 08:19, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Detractors

This article is biased. It has specific paragraphs for Proponents of DST, but none for Detractors of DST. A balanced article should have reference to both, one closely following the other. Given the references to ill health, economic disruption, social disruption and more, the research cited suggests there would be more detractors than proponents. Why no mention of them? 2604:3D09:679:4620:8B3:1A88:A81D:104D (talk) 15:27, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Seasons are proper nouns

And as such the name of each season should be capitalized. 2605:59C8:1542:5E10:78AD:16E9:4265:4D19 (talk) 20:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

The names of seasons are common nouns.[1] Schazjmd (talk) 20:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Ukraine borders on the map

Why are the ilegally occupied terroritories by Russia in Ukraine marked as part of Russia in the image showing the places where summertime has been in use? 2001:14BA:A01D:3800:8D2F:F8E3:C7ED:675D (talk) 19:00, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Antagonic (veranile and invernal) and legal times

Strictly, a veranile time is ever one hour above the legal and an invernal time ever one below the legal. These two horal forms are antagonic over the nomour (legal time). Supposedly, an invernour in the Baker and the Howland use the UTC−13:00 time zone.

Annually, the veranours and the invernours ever have days with 23 hours and days with 25.

200.155.120.220 (talk) 21:29, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

No, in places that have observe daylight saving time, the clock is turned ahead by one hour at the beginning of daylight saving time and turns back by one hour at the end of daylight saving time. In most places in the world, that means that the clock is one hour ahead of standard time during daylight saving time; in Ireland, it means that the clock is one hour behind standard time during winter time.

Legal time, in the sense of "time as established by law", observes daylight saving time if DST is established in law.

The Howland and Baker Islands are, if the Wikipedia article for them is to be believed, in the UTC-12:00 time zone.

When daylight saving time begins, the Sunday when the clocks are turned forward has 23 hours; when daylight saving time ends, the Sunday when the clocks are turned backward has 25 hours. Guy Harris (talk) 01:51, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

An invernour (invernal time) is a time one hour below the legal. Its first Sunday contains 25 hours (1:59:59 LT-1:00:00 IT) and it last 23 (0:59:59 IT-2:00:00 LT).

"Invernour" is the antonymic word of "veranour".

2804:18:908:C6D:E444:27FF:FE92:74FF (talk) 11:19, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:An invernour (invernal time) is a time one hour below the legal. So what is "the legal time"? Standard time? Guy Harris (talk) 12:06, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

"Nomour" ("legal time" [prefix "nomo-" + noun "hour"]) is a name of an "official time" ("padronic time" ["padronour"]), as "Brazilian Time (BRT), exemplarly.

189.50.186.221 (talk) 12:45, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

OK, so time in Brazil indicates that "BRT" is "Brasilia time", referring to the time zone that "comprises the states in the South, Southeast and Northeast regions (except the small islands mentioned above), plus the states of Goiás, Tocantins, Pará and Amapá, and the Federal District, which includes the national capital city, Brasília." That's most of Brazil, but not all of Brazil - as the article says, "About 93% of the Brazilian population live in this time zone, which covers about 60% of the country's land area. It includes 26 of the 28 largest metropolitan areas in Brazil." That's why it's "Brazilia time", not "Brazilian time".

I.e., it's legal/official/whatever for most (but not all) of Brazil.

However, there's also time in Brazil § Daylight saving time, which says that "Brazil observed daylight saving time (DST; Portuguese: horário de verão, "summer time") in the years of 1931–1933, 1949–1953, 1963–1968 and 1985–2019." and "Brazil abolished DST in 2019." I.e., Brazilian law also specified, in the past, that clocks be adjusted.

So "legal time", in the sense of "what the law specifies", is not necessarily "standard time", in the sense of "the time that is always in effect if there are no seasonal etc. adjustments, and that is considered the time to which the adjustments are made if there are seasonal etc. adjustments".

In countries that do no seasonal etc. adjustments, the legal time is always standard time.

In countries that do seasonal adjustments, there is time as observed during summer and perhaps some of spring or fall (presumably that's what your "veranile time" is, with "veranile" coming from the Latin "ver" for spring, with the clocks being turned forward some time in spring), and there's time as observed during the rest of the year (presumably that's what your "invernal time" is - not sure of the etymology there, although, for the English word "winter", Spanish does have "invierno" and Portuguese does have "inverno" - although the clock change may take place in fall/autumn, rather than winter). In most cases, the time observed during winter (and perhaps later in fall/autumn and the beginning of spring) is standard time, perhaps also called "winter time", and the time observed during summer (and some or all of spring, and perhaps early fall/autumn) is "daylight saving time" or "summer time". In Ireland, however, the time observed during summer' is called "standard time".

In some countries, such as Morocco, adjustments are done for non-seasonal reasons, e.g. adjusting for Ramadan in Morocco. I'm not sure what terms are used there.

So (if we ignore the case of Morocco):

• there's the time established by law as standard time, which, in most cases, could be considered "winter time" (or, if you choose to use a term not generally used in English, "invernal time"), and, in the Irish case, could be considered "summer time" (or, if you choose to use a term not generally used in English, "vernal time" or "veranile time");
• there's the time that is typically adjusted away from standard time by one hour, which, in most cases, could be considered "summer time" or "daylight saving time" (or, if you choose to use a term not generally used in English, "vernal time" or "veranile time"), which is one hour ahead of standard time, and, in the Irish case, could be considered "winter time" (or, if you choose to use a term not generally used in English, "invernal time"), which is one hour behind standard time.

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make here? Is there something that needs to change on the Daylight saving time page? If so, what is that change? (In the changed text, please use terminology generally used in English-speaking countries, as this is the English Wikipedia, rather than, to pick a hypothetical example, terminology used in Brazil, translated from Brazilian Portuguese to English formally and literally rather than idiomatically.)

(BTW, in English, "antonymic word" is a noun phrase that is not generally used - the word "antonym" suffices.) Guy Harris (talk) 18:22, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

I thank you by your answer and by your advice. Sorry me by my lexical confusions because "nomour" signifies "legal time" and "padronour" "padronic time".

Good None (canonical hour) in BRT!

2804:18:114A:D92D:C68:5AFF:FECF:E031 (talk) 19:08, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

OK, so is there a specific thing to change in this article? Guy Harris (talk) 19:45, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

No, Mister Guy Harris! I thank you!

Good None in BRT!

2804:18:147:DC0C:44A0:A8FF:FE69:5F50 (talk) 20:18, 19 February 2025 (UTC)